Curse

PuppetIsLame · Apr 18, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Yeh Nerf the 55's too easy money and monks r ugly anyway x.x

Quozz · Apr 18, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

That part of your post is really quite ignorant.

This was unnecessary. Disagree with me fine. But that kind of comment only shows a lack of class and a lack of respect for another person's opinion.

Now to actually address the more intelligent portion of your response, you seem to disagree with my interpretation of skill. Taking PVP out of the equation, a farming build designed to prey on specific weaknesses in the game mechanics requires little skill to use. Yes the original creator of said build had a lot of skill and creativity in designing it but thats as far as it goes. A true measure of skill involves how one reacts and adjusts to a truly dynamic environment. When you know ahead of time what you will fight and what they will be using, you have removed much of the skill and strategy. I for one want a dynamic environment where I have to make tactical decisions based on what my AI opponents are using against me and come up with creative ideas on how to best use the limited amount of resources at my disposal. In a static environment which is what exists now, once you create a build for a certain area, most of the skill and strategy goes out the window. If you know that the monsters can't remove any enchantments then you no longer have to adjust on the fly and come up with tactical solutions to react to a stripped enchantment that suddenly puts you on the defensive.

quickmonty · Apr 18, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

This was unnecessary. Disagree with me fine. But that kind of comment only shows a lack of lack of class and a lack of respect for another person's opinion.

Now to actually address the more intelligent portion of your response, you seem to disagree with my interpretation of skill. Taking PVP out of the equation, a farming build designed to prey on specific weaknesses in the game mechanics requires little skill to use. Yes the original creator of said build had a lot of skill and creativity in designing it but thats as far as it goes. A true measure of skill involves how one reacts and adjusts to a truly dynamic environment. When you know ahead of time what you will fight and what they will be using, you have removed much of the skill and strategy. I for one want a dynamic environment where I have to make tactical decisions based on what my AI opponents are using against me and come up with creative ideas on how to best use the limited amount of resources at my disposal. In a static environment which is what exists now, once you create a build for a certain area, most of the skill and strategy goes out the window. If you know that the monsters can't remove any enchantments then you no longer have to adjust on the fly and come up with tactical solutions to react to a stripped enchantment that suddenly puts you on the defensive.

Agree with first paragraph.

Second paragraph ..... "Taking PvP out of the equation ....." Sounds to me that what you are describing is PvP.

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

You know it be a lot easier IF in every part in the map (the GOOD farming ones) the enemies had either necro and mesmers or necro and mesmer as secondary professions so they could strip/remove enchantments.

Furthermore it be a lot easier to just currently nerf out the Runes -75 hp effect by making them non stackable if they repeat the same rune, so if the person uses two Superior Smiting rune only one -75 hp is in effect.

Finally farming would be a lot more "controlled" if say accounts in a whole where affected by the time they spend farming. So X account spends Y time farming his/her drop rate becomes Z% LESS. This affects EVERY character in that account forcing that person to not be farming 24/7 and giving time for his/her account to cool down. Maybe they should include a bonus X% when farmers go in team instead of solo...

I read a document on Guild Wars economics and I believe that Guild Wars require not just cash sinks but also as he stated cash loops in order to control the games economy.

You could also deliberately drop ecto prices by making them uncommon for a time but I find this unlikely to happen...

All these are just suggestions Im not really affected by PvE farming nor care much about it.

Quozz · Apr 18, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Second paragraph ..... "Taking PvP out of the equation ....." Sounds to me that what you are describing is PvP.

lol, in a small way it does (thus my earlier indication that this would prove to be a far more instructive way to lure people into PVP than what currently exists). However, I don't know of any programmer to date that can code up an AI routine that emulates a real thinking human so its still far below the challenge level of beating human controlled characters. I just think the overall PVE experience would be much improved with some variety and unexpected surprises thrown in

Zhou Feng · Apr 18, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

This was unnecessary. Disagree with me fine. But that kind of comment only shows a lack of class and a lack of respect for another person's opinion.

Now to actually address the more intelligent portion of your response, you seem to disagree with my interpretation of skill. Taking PVP out of the equation, a farming build designed to prey on specific weaknesses in the game mechanics requires little skill to use. Yes the original creator of said build had a lot of skill and creativity in designing it but thats as far as it goes. A true measure of skill involves how one reacts and adjusts to a truly dynamic environment. When you know ahead of time what you will fight and what they will be using, you have removed much of the skill and strategy. I for one want a dynamic environment where I have to make tactical decisions based on what my AI opponents are using against me and come up with creative ideas on how to best use the limited amount of resources at my disposal. In a static environment which is what exists now, once you create a build for a certain area, most of the skill and strategy goes out the window. If you know that the monsters can't remove any enchantments then you no longer have to adjust on the fly and come up with tactical solutions to react to a stripped enchantment that suddenly puts you on the defensive.

I also agree with your post. Like I said itd be a lot easier if monsters where spawned with Necro and Mesmer as either primary or secondary to deal with enchantments in almost every important "farming" map. That would force players to adapt on the fly as well as be more "skilled".

I dont intend though that Enchantments are unplayable in PvE or that every monster has Necro and Mesmer as primary and secondary, just that in every spawned set of monsters at least a few have this abilities. This will make 55 farmers a lot harder to play with.

As way as an example suppose 55 "monk" enters X map to "farm". In said map there are exactly Y mobs. In EVERY ONE of these Y mobs there are at least 2~Z monsters with Necro and/or Mesmer as primary and/or secondary with enchantment removal. This scenario would make the 55 "monk" unable to rely completely on their enchantments as their is a possibility his/her enchants will get removed.

gabrial heart · Apr 18, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Nope, a couple of necros or mesmers can screw any 55 up bad. No need to nerf it. A-net could stop the runs easy if the put one necro with rend outside the door and folow up with one warrior in 2 hits... bye bye 55 bots

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 18, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I like your suggestion Quozz. I think it would be a realy nice touch to have a bit more randomness when it comes to where/what classes the monsters spawn at/as. Of course there would have to be some safe zone like when you leave town and first enter an enemy spawned area. It would suck to leave town and get jumped by three lvl24+ mobs of 8 or more each sometimes before the loading screan catches up. So /signed to having random spawn locations and random mob make up with random skill sets. But have some spawn free zones at rez shrines and portals.

Since almost all (if not all) solo and paired farm builds require knowing the skills and behavior of the enemy being farmed before hand then by making it randomized it wouldn't be possible anymore.

Str0b0 · Apr 19, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

This was unnecessary. Disagree with me fine. But that kind of comment only shows a lack of class and a lack of respect for another person's opinion.

Now to actually address the more intelligent portion of your response, you seem to disagree with my interpretation of skill. Taking PVP out of the equation, a farming build designed to prey on specific weaknesses in the game mechanics requires little skill to use. Yes the original creator of said build had a lot of skill and creativity in designing it but thats as far as it goes. A true measure of skill involves how one reacts and adjusts to a truly dynamic environment. When you know ahead of time what you will fight and what they will be using, you have removed much of the skill and strategy. I for one want a dynamic environment where I have to make tactical decisions based on what my AI opponents are using against me and come up with creative ideas on how to best use the limited amount of resources at my disposal. In a static environment which is what exists now, once you create a build for a certain area, most of the skill and strategy goes out the window. If you know that the monsters can't remove any enchantments then you no longer have to adjust on the fly and come up with tactical solutions to react to a stripped enchantment that suddenly puts you on the defensive.

Your post was ignorant. I'm sorry if I hurt your little feelings. Here have a hanky and let this drip into your brain case. A dynamic environment is too expensive, not cost effective to program and would require too many server resources. From a purely business standpoint what you want done cannot be done and still keep Guild Wars free. AI cannot be more complex than it is. I love how you people always want to make the AI smarter. Again this is ignorance. You obviously have no clue what is involved in programming AI. I know why don't we just start making the game CD's out of solid gold and we could also run diamond fiberoptic cable from the server straight to everyone's computer while we are at it. Now take into consideration the fact that this is the best you people can do when it comes to offering nerf suggestions for farming. You've run out of ideas that won't cost more than they are worth to implement and yet you wonder why ANet doesn't seem to be doing anything. so of course they won't do anything because everytime you offer a suggestion like this it involves some broad sweeping program change. I've already told you how they could stop farming with one line of code. I know they know it too. This is nothing less than tacit approval. They do not care about the player farmers and we are the ones that set the economy because the "sweatshoppers" and Bots are in it just for gold sales. We decide how much that nifty new rare fellblade we found is worth. All they care about is stopping the second party trade. We're here to stay but if it makes you feel better to offer pointless suggestions and to cry about being poor an unable to afford what you need then go ahead. Keep in mind though it is because of our farming that greens have now gotten down to an affordable level as well as crafting materials. Remember when one ecto was 10K? Yeah farming picks up supply increases now 6K. You can cry inflation but that's not right either. If we were creating extra money in the economy then prices would go up because the buying power of a plat would decrease. Victos axe 20K! I can get one for 7 now. Like I said in the other thread the only items that are 100's of plat are what you would call vanity items. In a real economy they are luxury items and luxury items aren't supposed to be affordable to the masses. If nothing else it's the farmers that are helping you afford things. We have to undercut the trader prices in order to move product. So you tell me how are we gouging you? How are we hurting you? Seems to me that you all want to get rich quick either that or you hate to see other's prosper. If anything else you should encourage us to keep bringing you the stuff you want at prices your tiny little storage accounts can afford. Sure it's not that rare murasaat horn bow 15^50 with all kinds of nifty mods on it but then again you're not meant to afford that. That's for players with money. You can get a green with good mods and perfect damage for cheap and really that's all you need to play and be effective. You don't need the things you see going for 100's of plat you just want them and can't afford them. Too bad.

Murk · Apr 19, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

OMG, here's the expert.. LOL

But he's right
Some n00bs just talk shit they don't even know what there talking about.
Nerf this, do that..
This game must be playable for everyone ^_^

That's 1 point, second is..

Quote:

There's nothing wrong with 55's

I said this before in the very beginning of this useless thread
As jaloes people say nerf something, what make's the 55hp Monk not exist anymore.. BUT that's impossible, we will survive !!

Go nerf my PANTS, my Monk will farm anyway !!

Str0b0 · Apr 19, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Actually one of my guildies is doing a paper on the Guild Wars Economy for her Economics course this semester. I'll be sure to repost it. She's given her permission for it. I think a lot of people will be suprised about just how good the economy has actually gotten and also how little some aspects of it have changed. Now I've said it before and I'll say it again. ALL solo farming could be stopped with the implementation of one IF THEN statement. Now if you believe that the professional programmers at ANet haven't realized this then you must be flat out gullible. IF party size is < 2 THEN disallow rezone to instanced area from town. It's that simple. No more farming with 55's. No more solo farming. That in conjunction with the anti farming code they have already implemented would stop it entirely. To me this says they tacitly approve of some farming while you people want the complete elimination of it.

Drizix, Mursaat God · Apr 20, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

In last, This thread, as people, including my self, asked for a build for every profession to pull with their *own* skills a method of solo farming places like those. At this moment, you are either forced to make a NECRO, or a 55 monk to do it. Why not allow every profession to do something with their own skills for such *rare and not enough* places for farming? That will not hurt 55 farming, but will allow people like me to play with my favourite characters rather than using a cheap ass SS necro, and pull same stuff with 3 skills along with a 55 monk.
Make a mesmer and ele do the same. not just necro. Now, if you are going to tell me about SV, well beats me why ele profession is the only useless one for that. And now, every thing boils down to the same very point, buff the freakin profession and stop nerfing the shit out of it.

By the way, i got an SS of my own just because i am FORCED to play a necro side to do farming in UW. And i am quite good at doing my part in farming. So do not take it as i have no clue of what i am talking about. -Xploiter

Alright, if I understand that all correctly you're not totally against 55 builds, you just want every class to be able to farm the same areas. Understandable. I'll tell you what I know, I know a warrior build that can farm UW solo. I know a MESMER build that can farm it solo. I know there is PROBABLY an ele build that can do it, and obviously the necro and the monk can. Hell, I think the ranger is the one left out here, and I'm pretty sure he could come up with a build.

Not every class can do it with Just their class (Like Straight Necro or Straight Ele) Like mesmers, warriors and monks can.

55 builds come to every class, hell I myself used a warrior and 55'd griffons outside camp rankor for quite awhile. Personally, I hated the nerf of AOE skills >.< I know that farming would cause tons more "depression," but god, going into a group of 20 animals and killing them all in like 30 seconds was fun. Woohoo Balthazaurs Aura!

Call me dumb if ya want but what is this "Anti-Farming Code" ?

Xpl0iter · Apr 20, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Actually one of my guildies is doing a paper on the Guild Wars Economy for her Economics course this semester. I'll be sure to repost it. She's given her permission for it.

I would suggest one thing, do let us all know her knowledge level before posting. If you need my reason to ask for this specific thing, well... i need to know what i am reading is not a doing of a new economics student. Looking forward to it by the way.

Can't write too much in my post today, got an exam in few hours from now.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

TheLordOfBlah · Apr 20, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Malak

ANet and other gamers are getting hit hard,
the reason Droks Int'l D1(or chinese farm haven)

instead of taking away skills or weapons that will sky rocket in price!
(aka dont nerf the -50 item, it will be worth to much)

Why doesnt Anet fix the glitches that the 55 build is made around?
they've none this since the begging but the completly ignored it.

I believe the only way to nerf farming will be to nerf the 55 glitch not 55build/skills, because the build/skills are used in groups and other uses

finally to the point, with this coming patch April 15th
The GW community NEEDS(not wants) NEEDS Anet to solve this
- By a nerfing the double rune stack (dual sup runes)
therefore bringing the HP lvl to 130
- Maybe by also nerfing the Dual hp regens (mending+ breeze)

If this is not fixed in this update or with in a month of April 27th(factions)
Bye to a whole new chance at a good market, not this over farmed crap!
if this isnt fixed within of factions realese all the 55 farmers will have had a rush to high lvl areas and then be able to farm brandnew weapons,at a unbelievble rate.

Feel free to add comments, flame, what ever, but if 55 is not fixed once and for all, simply a half hearted Good Bye!

1. the 55 monk build does not revolve around exploiting game glitches
2. making rune -hp not stack still doesnt do anything. Think, 55 elementalist
3. Health regeneration is SUPPOSED to stack. Otherwise mending and many other skills would be pointless, example: well of blood and mending.

You're retarded, leave.

EDIT: something else to add about nerfing prot spirit. I have a build that uses prot bond that works excellent. Not about to go and give it away though.

Thorin Monk · Apr 20, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Only thing I see changing about the 55-Build is making Protective Spirit be for target other ally, instead of them casting on themselve. I don't see a real problem with 55s, and I am sure Anet has put in monsters that will not allow the 55s to farm the new areas right away. If anyone did the preview event, several of the monsters were Necromancers, with several degeneration spells, this alone will prevent the average 55 to farm away, it would take skill to farm, like it does anywhere else, it is simply a build, like SS, or a MM. If Anet hasn't nerfed it by now, I doubt it ever will. As for the farmers in Droks Int Dis1, every game has these farmers, WoW, Lineage, all the big online based games with an economy has this in common. Being able to solo is not cheating, it is using strategy and skill, as well as looking at the skills and finding something that works, just as the developers intended.

Don Zardeone · Apr 20, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

I didn't read all posts completely but it seems this is another one of those topics that go nowhere.

So blah

1. Please stop calling it "chinese farming" "korean farming" or "asian farming".
Reason for that: don't be racist/Extreme-nationalist

2. Please stop calling it "abusive farming".
Reason for that: preserve the English language
Abusive
1. Characterized by improper or wrongful use: abusive utilization of public funds.
2. Using or containing insulting or coarse language: finally reprimanded the abusive colleague.
3. Causing physical injury to another: abusive punishment.
4. Relating to or practicing sexual abuse.

A better term would be "efficient killing of melee mobs".

3. Please be nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Malak

ANet and other gamers are getting hit hard,
the reason Droks Int'l D1(or chinese farm haven)

That sentence worries me.

batou · Apr 20, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Your post was ignorant. I'm sorry if I hurt your little feelings. Here have a hanky and let this drip into your brain case. A dynamic environment is too expensive, not cost effective to program and would require too many server resources. From a purely business standpoint what you want done cannot be done and still keep Guild Wars free. AI cannot be more complex than it is. I love how you people always want to make the AI smarter. Again this is ignorance. You obviously have no clue what is involved in programming AI. I know why don't we just start making the game CD's out of solid gold and we could also run diamond fiberoptic cable from the server straight to everyone's computer while we are at it. Now take into consideration the fact that this is the best you people can do when it comes to offering nerf suggestions for farming. You've run out of ideas that won't cost more than they are worth to implement and yet you wonder why ANet doesn't seem to be doing anything. so of course they won't do anything because everytime you offer a suggestion like this it involves some broad sweeping program change. I've already told you how they could stop farming with one line of code. I know they know it too. This is nothing less than tacit approval. They do not care about the player farmers and we are the ones that set the economy because the "sweatshoppers" and Bots are in it just for gold sales. We decide how much that nifty new rare fellblade we found is worth. All they care about is stopping the second party trade. We're here to stay but if it makes you feel better to offer pointless suggestions and to cry about being poor an unable to afford what you need then go ahead. Keep in mind though it is because of our farming that greens have now gotten down to an affordable level as well as crafting materials. Remember when one ecto was 10K? Yeah farming picks up supply increases now 6K. You can cry inflation but that's not right either. If we were creating extra money in the economy then prices would go up because the buying power of a plat would decrease. Victos axe 20K! I can get one for 7 now. Like I said in the other thread the only items that are 100's of plat are what you would call vanity items. In a real economy they are luxury items and luxury items aren't supposed to be affordable to the masses. If nothing else it's the farmers that are helping you afford things. We have to undercut the trader prices in order to move product. So you tell me how are we gouging you? How are we hurting you? Seems to me that you all want to get rich quick either that or you hate to see other's prosper. If anything else you should encourage us to keep bringing you the stuff you want at prices your tiny little storage accounts can afford. Sure it's not that rare murasaat horn bow 15^50 with all kinds of nifty mods on it but then again you're not meant to afford that. That's for players with money. You can get a green with good mods and perfect damage for cheap and really that's all you need to play and be effective. You don't need the things you see going for 100's of plat you just want them and can't afford them. Too bad.

lol, he meant to randomize the spawn locations and mix around the monsters builds, so they arent the same everytime.

Stockholm · Apr 20, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Guy's Anet is ownd by a KOREAN company and have just opend up new servers all over asia, and they are very interessted in making money, every new server(country) in asia has the potential to attract more ppl than US and EU togheter so I don't think the will nerf farming when 1 person in "XXXXX" will buy 20-200 games for a pro-farm shop and set up bot's. NC-Soft makes money per sold game not on players who play for years. ECONOMICS 3 billion asians as potential customers or 500 million happy westerners LOL do the math.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 20, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Wow after reading page nine I saw nothing but insult being thrown in by those who support the excessive farming while none by those against.

Quozz posted some really nice ideas that would make the game a bit more challenging and less predictable and would make solo or even paired farming extremely difficult if not impossible. His post was well thought out and wasn't an insult to anyone but what was one of the first replies to his post. Your post was ignorant. I think you have to look up the meaning of ignorant because there was nothing ignorant about it. Just showed that maybe your the ignorant one to be personally attacking others that made a simple post just because you don't agree with it.

CAT · Apr 20, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

55 monks drop prices if you dont use them and are an effective way to farm if you do. If arenanet really wanted to nerf them, they would add the tag "this cannot reduce damage below xx".